Author Topic: LoL - League of Legends discussion  (Read 3916 times)

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Offline SleepingBeau

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LoL - League of Legends discussion
« on: July 25, 2014, 09:21:30 PM »
Due to my situation I haven't been able to play the games I've always liked best, but I've always been big on analyzing game mechanics and combat dynamics so I've taken to watching pro LoL matches and scouring over the numbers in the LoL wiki. I used to play a lot, though, so I don't feel like such a stranger to how it feels to be playing rather than watching.

My favorite to play had always been Nidalee, so I've been doing a lot of work trying to figure out all the tiny particulars of her new rework. I've theory-crafted a lot of item builds and playstyle ideas and learned a lot doing so, and after watching a bunch of pro matches I was really happy to see some of my ideas being wielded by them. Took awhile to really appreciate her AD bruiser builds, though. Until I watched this match-> http://youtu.be/7hDe7iHDmow , I had always had misgivings about completely dropping AP items, especially when paired with a Lich Bane to absolutely mangle opponents with her Takedown execute or give her autoattack poke a boost.

Anyway, without going into the heavy number-crunching I've just about taped out all I can work out on her. I'm just looking for a new champ to focus on now, so before I jump into a new champ I was wondering if any of you wanted to start a discussion on any one in particular. Just be forewarned, I go deep lol. I've just gotten into the gold efficiency of items, and factoring them based on ability stats and target opponents, so I hope you like numbers XD
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LoL - League of Legends discussion
« on: July 25, 2014, 09:21:30 PM »

Offline Jay Chan

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 12:27:08 AM »
ahhhh LoL

I've been building my roster since I started playing last year. I've generally stuck to Mid lane Mages, some ADC-ing, and a little bit of Assassin Jungling.
A few of my favorites are Ziggs, Xerath, Sivir, Jinx, and Kha'zix.
I'm thinking of getting Karthus soon, but right now I'm learning Zed. Thought on his build? Most of the builds I've seen rush a BotRK and build lots of damage from there. I tend to go for a Brutalizer into Youmuu's Ghostblade and cooldown boots.
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Offline Dreaker

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2014, 07:18:34 AM »
Long since I played this.. Had some insane "you won't believe a word of it" type of moments.
I mostly play ranged AD carry namely Sivir and Caitlyn. If needed I went to the middle with Ziggs or Orianna. Time to time I fooled around with Kayle. When I played she was rarely played and considered to be a noob's choice.. Boy how wrong they were. But my ultimate favorite was Katarina. Sadly the item I used changed drastically.
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Offline SleepingBeau

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2014, 05:46:48 PM »
...right now I'm learning Zed. Thought on his build? Most of the builds I've seen rush a BotRK and build lots of damage from there. I tend to go for a Brutalizer into Youmuu's Ghostblade and cooldown boots.

After watching that one Nidalee AD bruiser pro game I realized that the way you have to look at it is to build based on their strengths. When you mentioned the BRK I thought that was kind of weird, too. Made total sense after some thought and a watching his gameplay for a little, though. A quick look at his strengths:

* Energy means his sustain is based on life regen
* Strong Poke (fast, mixed angles, piercing, area denial through passive threat, 1450 max range + flash)
* Mobility (instant distance close, ability evasion, HUGE dash range (W+R+Flash) and instant escape)
* Burst based ultimate

The biggest thing to take away from Zed is that despite being a melee assassin, his time spent toe-to-toe is very minimal. Also, most of his damage will be dealt with QWE, so crit won't be of much benefit. At low % it's also not very dependable. AS, however, can give the same DPS boost but with much better consistency. It also speeds up attack animation, which is important for such a soft and mobile champ.

The biggest thing to consider is early game potential. Brutalizer isn't bad, but Bilgewater is better. Zed needs lifesteal to sustain. More damage doesn't matter if you opponent can outlast you, and Zed's poke is absolutely made for outlasting purposes. The slightly higher burst might be able to muscle some people out of your lane but it won't work against everyone, and those it won't work against will now have the advantage. Also, since Zed's ultimate is based on burst, you'll give it the bigger benefit with the Bilgewater active. Since it's magic damage, your opponent won't be building up any resistance to it. The slow will also help keep your opponent within melee range until you decide to change that. Even if they had equal base move speed, 40% slow means they would need a 67% boost just to match your speed again. If you build towards Youmuu's, you won't have a speed boost OR slow at your disposal until much later. Bilgewater is all about securing the early kill, and Zed's poke, even at early levels, is more than sufficient to make that possible.

Also, once you get BKR the lifesteal part of the active is great for surviving after the kill. A good Zed can pick off low hp and soft champs from huge distances, with great reliability and ridiculous speed. All the % life damage stuff from your abilities and BKR also means you can take out champs that stack high HP, and even if you're trying to assassinate squishy targets, it more than makes up for the early lack of bonus AD.

And the lesson I learned from AD Nid is that unlike AP, 1) your AD naturally increases with your level, and 2) don't forget that your sources of damage can come from other and unusual places. I once saw a very successful bruiser Nid build that had only Trinity Force as any source of AP or AD from the first 3 items. I used to scoff at the Triforce. Pfft, base damage? Well....I made a graph lol...http://imgur.com/y5Y3Jjc. The second last column, titled Lich Bane, is using 3 items. Lich Bane, Rabadon's, and Athene's. The last column titled Triforce is, obviously, Trinity Force, with BKR aaaand....I can't remember what item. Something with 30-50 AD. The numbers aren't exact, I just approximated the value of the runes. But as you can see, the difference in damage is almost insignificant (>10%), and that's even including a Lich Bane proc.

Anyway, that's all I've got for now lol. I'm still looking into the potential of other items and item build paths. Since runes aren't easy to come by, I try to stick with champs that would primarily use the same runes. I had started with AP so it's mostly AP stuff I'm familiar with. And yes...I have a lot of time on my hands today lol. I've got a oh-god-I'm-going-to-throw-up type headache I'm trying to not focus on T_T
And the cackling coyote said to the wolf, "Then what will be left to eat but the fat off your lies and my gamey pointless riddles?"

Offline Dreaker

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2014, 06:31:44 PM »
I tried to play Nidalee... Her behind keep distracting me.
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Offline SleepingBeau

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2014, 05:29:19 PM »
Story time! (another wall of text)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nidalee's behind lol. Her character model is a little less...shapely than the average female character. Her voice actor is pretty damn enticing though! ...I think I have a sort of thing for mature amazonian women. You know. Cougars. wakka wakka wakka X3
And the cackling coyote said to the wolf, "Then what will be left to eat but the fat off your lies and my gamey pointless riddles?"

Offline Jessi

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2014, 06:44:08 PM »
MUH JINX.

Best ADC. No ganking her. Zap and Snappers.
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Offline Jay Chan

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2014, 09:21:57 PM »
Having both a Muramana and an Archangel's staff is definitely strange and hard to pull off, but on a champion with decent AD and AP scaling they synergize surprisingly well.
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Offline SleepingBeau

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2014, 03:00:13 AM »
Jinx? Maybeh :3 Depends on your comp and opposition. There are a more than a few ways to circumvent stuff like that. Sometimes a dash can be more valuable. Especially one like Vayne's. 2 second cooldown? Yes please!

Having both a Muramana and an Archangel's staff is definitely strange and hard to pull off, but on a champion with decent AD and AP scaling they synergize surprisingly well.
Yeah, the biggest hurdle is charging the Tear of the Goddess. At least 9 minutes. It'll still be useful in the meantime but you won't get that jump in overall ability that you might get with other items until you've got the final version of Tear. Also that initial 700g for it will have gained you no damage or defense. It's a cheap and VERY gold efficient item, but only towards keeping your mana pool filled. You'll likely have to go for defensive items to counter your enemy's superior offense and just try to outlast them. But it's not so much about the size of your power scaling. It's how you use it ;D

For real though, champions like Nidalee kind of flip things upsidedown. Nidalee has abhorent scaling on just about everything, but her cooldowns are inherently short, and her fast attack speed and dual range/melee autoattacks means she's constantly making use of that AD and AP. That's why bruiser builds work so deceptively well on her. Er, that and Sheen's effectiveness.

Question though: What champ was Muramana made for? It seems like every item has a champ that uses it as a core build item.

And the cackling coyote said to the wolf, "Then what will be left to eat but the fat off your lies and my gamey pointless riddles?"

Offline Jay Chan

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 11:18:15 PM »
Muramana works really well on AD Kog'Maw with his ult. Ryze also synergizes well with both that and Archangel's giving him ungodly amounts of mana (only late game though, since it takes half an hour to charge up TWO tears)

There's few champions that use up excessive amounts of mana and bulid AD... ARAM Sivir? Top lane Kha'zix? Sion maybe? ??? Sion is weird...
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Offline SleepingBeau

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Re: LoL - League of Legends discussion
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2014, 06:05:04 AM »
Oh yeah, Kog'Maw and Ryze. Definitely their items. I was never terribly good with either of them. I never played them enough and I didn't have the same analytical skills I do now.

Sion? Eh...I don't know. Straight up AP, AS and defenses seem like the best option for him. Athene's seems too good for him to consider anything else, and that'd probably be enough to satisfy his mana needs.

I wonder...what about Elise? She has...1, 2, 3, 4 single target spells to benefit from the Muramana toggle, a great AS boost, and a great AP rate (Total AP% from full combo of abilities). I wonder if the Mura toggle procs lifesteal. Mura + Seraphs and all she would need is defenses.
And the cackling coyote said to the wolf, "Then what will be left to eat but the fat off your lies and my gamey pointless riddles?"