Author Topic: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)  (Read 14949 times)

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Offline Wraa

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2014, 09:02:55 PM »
Yeah, that sort of mindset is rather unfortunate, but I have seen it as well. I have to just shake my head.
It is much like trying to discuss scientific facts with someone who is ultra religious.
You'll have better luck speaking with a brick wall.
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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2014, 09:02:55 PM »

Offline Dreaker

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2014, 01:58:08 PM »
Ultra religious people who actually never read the book they are referring too.
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Offline Wraa

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2014, 03:28:42 PM »
Or people who pick and choose which parts of the religion to follow while ignoring other parts.

Now granted, I'm not out to start a hateful rant on folks who have beliefs.
I just don't care for people who claim a belief only to use it as an excuse for poor behavior.
I've always told myself that I have no room in my life for any religion that has hate/disapproval built into it.
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Offline Caltsar

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2014, 05:17:20 PM »
I feel like putting my 2 cents on the situation here...

For people accusing the grand jury of being stacked (especially those implying conspiracy), the grand jury is not selected like a trial jury. It is completely random and there is very little screening that goes on compared to a trial jury.

Additionally, I haven't been keeping up with the media coverage as I've found it incredibly distasteful. I have been reading court documents and other official testimony, and after looking through all that, I agree that the grand jury came to the correct decision. Too many witnesses on the prosecution's side admitted to lying about even seeing the events happen, and evidence on the prosecution's side is shaky at best. If this case had gone to trial, having proven unreliable witness testimony is enough to have the police officer found not guilty. By choosing not to indict, charges may be brought up again later if new evidence is found and the prosecution can provide more reliable sources of proof.

As far as my own personal opinion from viewing evidence and testimony, I do believe that in this case the police officer did act within his rights. Brown was shot facing the officer, shell casings were found inside the vehicle, and blood was found showing he was getting away *after* he was shot. This leads me to believe that under current laws and current police procedure, the officer who shot Brown is not guilty.

HOWEVER that is only in this case, and I do believe police procedures in the US need to be refined and changed. There are far too many shootings of unarmed civilians and far too many mistakes made by the police. This particular shooting is not the proper one to use as a rallying cry for this change, and the reactions of the population to the lack of indictment sicken me.

Our police forces need more training and better procedure for handling conflict and arrests, but at the same time, looting and rioting are not the way to get this change. It simply reinforces the need for police to employ tactics like tear gas and other riot control methods.

Offline Wraa

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2014, 06:08:34 PM »
Agreed Caltsar and well stated.
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Offline brothejr

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2014, 07:59:34 PM »
True.  Though I hear this is not even remotely done.  Numerous jurists have stated the DA should have recused himself for numerous reasons.  Under Mossuri law, the state judge who has jurisdiction can appoint an impartial DA to try the case.  The judge in that area has stated she is seriously doing that based on the evidence.  Also the Feds are considering of idicting Darren.  Also, there the federal law review, a group with a strong record, have stated this case should have gone to trial.  Finally, as much as the eye witness testimony on Mike's side seem shakey, there is some cause to question the eye witnesses on Darren's side.  Plus, some of the evidence, including the multiple autopsies call into question some of the things the DA said.  Also, some impartial judges have questioned why the DA sounded more like a defense attorney then a DA. 


Basically this is not as clean cut or done yet.

Edit: the store owner where Micheal stole the cigars repeatedly stated he had no intention to press charges.  He nor his employees had called 911.  It had been a customer who had taken it upon themselves to call 911 without saying anything to the owner.  Plus, dispite not pressing charges, the cops used a warrent to take the video.  Because of that, the FBI explicitly told them not to release the video.  Plus, because the store owner was not pressing charges, prosecuting Michael for the theft would be in a grey area. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 08:41:32 PM by brothejr »
I should put something pithy here, but I don't have the energy.

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Offline Caltsar

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2014, 09:14:55 PM »
Ultimately though, the points I made above remain true. This whole case is a mess, and is not a good case to use as a way to change police practices in the US. What many of the protesters and people getting up in arms about this situation are using it for is calling for blood, not reform.

Offline Dreaker

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2014, 06:48:30 AM »
Edit: the store owner where Micheal stole the cigars repeatedly stated he had no intention to press charges.  He nor his employees had called 911.  It had been a customer who had taken it upon themselves to call 911 without saying anything to the owner.  Plus, dispite not pressing charges, the cops used a warrent to take the video.  Because of that, the FBI explicitly told them not to release the video.  Plus, because the store owner was not pressing charges, prosecuting Michael for the theft would be in a grey area.
I think the shop owner does everything to prevent the shop going up inflames and the death of his and every employees at the hand of a raging lynch mob.
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Offline brothejr

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2014, 12:41:33 PM »
I think the shop owner does everything to prevent the shop going up inflames and the death of his and every employees at the hand of a raging lynch mob.

Um, not sure what you're going on there as my comments were not related to that? 

Edit: I'm going to leave this John Stewart Daily Show here.  It's semi related to this topic, but germane to this topic and also what Caltsar mentioned: http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/91gaaa/we-can-t-breathe
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 01:04:52 PM by brothejr »
I should put something pithy here, but I don't have the energy.

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Offline confusedcious

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2014, 04:13:09 AM »
Do police over there carry tear gas/pepper spray? They do here, I wonder if being able to disable a person and call for backup would save a lot of lives.

Also, a while back one state in Australia had several police shootings in a year. They did a bunch of training to highlight other options and when it was safe/appropriate to use these. Shootings dropped off again pretty sharply after that.

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Offline Wraa

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2014, 04:21:27 AM »
They do have both tear gas, pepper spray, and even rubber bullets/bean bags (for non-lethal ammo), and have even been criticized for using that under 'Excessive force'.
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Offline Alkarii

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2014, 09:47:47 PM »
What makes everything worse is that people rarely try to prevent things from getting shitty by going after the root cause of it all. Thanks to the media and entertainment industry,  living the thug life is now glorified. It's now cool for inner city people to commit armed robbery, burglary, rape, arson, and murder. Just something as minor as walking down the wrong fucking sidewalk is seen (by those who like the thug life) as just cause for killing someone, even if you haven't seen them before, and don't even know if they're just lost. And then there's the fact that people of any minority are automatically judged on the spot to be hardened criminals simply because they have a couple physical similarities to someone who has committed a crime.

As for police, it's actually a small percentage nationally that commit the injustices we hear a lot about. Remember early on in the Iraq war when we'd heard a lot about some of our people taking potshots at civilians? Did that automatically mean all the soldiers, marines, and all the rest were doing it? Not even close. Police legally don't have a lot of power, yet when they're doing their job, with what kinds of people are they interacting? Even pulling someone over to ask them if they are aware one of their tail lights is broken has lead to cops getting shot. Just search on any of the video websites like Youtube or Vidme. Cops and even security guards can't go anywhere in uniform without people spitting on them and yelling "fuck you, pig!"

If cops see one of their own, even the least popular officer in their department, getting attacked by someone, does anyone honestly think they're gonna ask the other guy what the fight is about? Most of the time, they assume the worst. How many people who harshly criticize the cop have actually been in what's potentially a life or death situation like that? Does anyone know how easy it is to forget training when it feels like there's more adrenaline than blood in your veins? To be able to maintain discipline perfectly every second in crazy situations, you would need to train about as much as any of the most elite military units, plus two or three decades of experience. And experience cannot be trained into you, it can't be synthesized, manufactured, substituted, or reproduced. It only comes with time.

That said, I don't think there's any justification for when a cop (or several) just loses his or her mind and beats someone to death, like when that group of cops beat to death an unarmed father of four because he had the sheer audacity to ask a cop why he was ordered to leave a bar when he wasn't doing anything wrong (as far as I heard). Someone got a video of it and put it online. Don't remember where it happened, either.
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Offline MeepSire

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Re: The Situation in Ferguson MO (USA)
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2015, 06:05:43 AM »
Indeed.
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